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Petrol-cheaper?

ethanol additives!

Started by jase31 · 24 Sep 2005 · 13 posts survive (11 recovered from printable/lo-fi copies) · Wayback

jase31
put some premiun into my car from saff or liberty the other day
cause I was caught short and I forgot it was with ethanol!
just about killed it
pinged like a bastard, cut out twice while driving
hard to start , idled like shoit

anyone know the dangers or benefits of this new fuel?

good good the enviroment -yeah cause it stopped my car, no polution if its not running
Harleyr
Apparently if your car is converted to it properlly it can be better than normal fuel but it is very corrosive and can eat away at fuel tanks and lines etc as thay are made outa of platic etc... The fuel is a by product of sugar products and oil. There was a good segment on it on accurent affairs i think on Thursday. There should be more study on it before thay start using it. One thing thay said is the fuel companys and the government really bag it because its cheap and clean and thay will loose out in our precious dollars. Not like thay dont make enough outa of us anyway. I use diesel so i have no worries with it as i buy mine from where trucks fill up.
Just run some Mobile high octane shit through your car and that should clean that stuff out.

Harley
jase31r
nah car is still going , has new ultimate in her now

but I was horrified , it was dangerous almost
and the corrosion issue is a worry(long term)
Oldskoolier
just dont put it in there. Ethanol = bad imo. I dont put anything other than BP Ultimate in my car. i dont care if its expensive, engine repairs is expensiver
crIs Pr
yeah i found the same Jase
filled up with it about a week ago and the car kept stalling on me
but didnt give it a second thought when i did it - was cheaper than regular unleaded so thought hey sounds good to me, but wont be doing that again. i guess running kero through it would be cheap too. would that work??? hahaha, im up for any cheap option
DeLr
i apologise now for what will be a series of long posts on this subject .


alot of this information is mazda specific.. as its gleamed from a mazda forum.. but the general gist of things is enthanol eats rubber fittings and hoses and rusts/corrodes/oxidises metals of the older cars.. ok prepare for an onslaught of long posts of information....
DeLr
In addition to the fact you cannot run your old school rotors using ethanol, here are some of the political considerations as to why some service stations dilute their petrol with ethanol :


==
According to Australian Institute of Petroleum executive director Bryan Nye, blending 20 percent ethanol cuts between two and four cents a litre from the wholesale price of a litre of petrol. While excise is paid on ethanol, as it is on petrol, the 38-cents-per-litre tax is exactly matched by the 38-cents-per-litre Federal Government subsidy for ethanol producers, introduced last year.

Australia's largest ethanol producer is the Manildra Group, a grain-business giant. Since 1992 it has produced ethanol from the waste stream of its factory at Bomaderry, near Nowra on the NSW south coast. The factory's prime role is to extract starch, gluten, and other useful products from wheat. About two-thirds of the 60-million litres of ethanol produced by Manildra each year is blended with petrol.

Businessman Dick Honan, head of the Manildra Group, has donated large amounts to the Liberal Party, as well as smaller sums to Labor and the Democrats. Interviewed by ABC radio's AM program last October, Honan denied that donations were intended to influence the government.

"This government can't be bought at all," Honan said. "We are not in the business of trying to buy favours."

Last year Manildra went into the petrol business. In a joint venture with a privately owned oil company called Park Petroleum, it formed Manildra Park Petroleum. This company claims to be the largest supplier of blended petrol/ethanol to independent fuel retailers in the Sydney and Wollongong regions.

When, last October, the Sydney Morning Herald commissioned an analysis of petrol sold by nine independent outlets in the Sydney's south and south west, it found samples from three contained more than 20 percent ethanol, and three others more than 10 percent. Most of the six retailers were reportedly unwilling to comment to the SMH, but two named Manildra as their supplier.

Above 10 percent ethanol, you enter the danger zone. Ethanol is both corrosive and a solvent. It eats away at fuel lines and fuel-delivery-system components. It can also loosen gunk in fuel lines, leading to blockages, and in older engines - especially those with carburettors - lead to cold-start problems and misfiring.

Keep it at 10 percent and the vehicle manufacturers are reasonably happy, although you'll get slightly decreased fuel economy. On top of this, ethanol's environmental credentials turn out to be rather dubious. Theoretically, ethanol should burn a little cleaner than petrol and generate less carbon dioxide. The reality, according to CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation), is that the differences in tailpipe hydrocarbon emissions between premium unleaded and premium unleaded with the 10 percent ethanol are negligible.

The same CSIRO study also found that the carbon-dioxide emissions are marginally lower. But what the study didn't say is that these tailpipe gains are potentially offset by the high CO2 penalty levied in growing the grain or sugar to make the ethanol.

A 2001 study by Cornell University in the US found that growing an acre of corn for conversion to ethanol required 529 litres of fossil fuels. Similar studies on the energy consumption of the sugar-to-ethanol process haven't been done. The same Cornell study, again based on corn conversion, found that 70 percent more energy is needed to produce 3.8 litres (1 US gallon) of ethanol than is contained in the ethanol itself.

Put it all together and there aren't many good reasons for adding it to petrol. Car manufacturers aren't keen on it, even though they are reluctant to go on record saying it, while the environmental costs appear much higher than the sugar-cane growers, ethanol producers, and both groups' supporters in parliament will own up to.

What can the motorist do? Our recommendation is to buy from the major brands. BP, for instance, guarantees the quality of the fuel sold under its name. If fuel bought from the company can be shown to have caused a problem, BP will pay to have affected parts replaced. If you must buy from independent retailers, seek an assurance that their products are ethanol-free. If their answer is unconvincing or they can't tell you, don't buy.
DeLr
and to finalise this.. i will never knowingly put ethanol based fuels in any of my vehicles. my vehicles are old, are not built for it. and will not benifit from it.


as jase said.. with his car it pinged and had issues trying to run on it. how howard can push this so ahrd is really beyond me. its obvisouly a huge back pocket operation between him and his cohorts to screw the nation even more.

SA has the oldest vehicles in the nation. and considering this age id say a good 80% of SAs cars will not be suitable for Ethanol usage. the fact its cheaper fuel will appeal to those who can least afford to fix their cars or own new models.. so in the end... its hurting those that can least afford to be hurt.
PaulHamonr
i've been sticking it in my car.. whenever i can.. give a shit.. never had a problem.. 3-4 tanks full now... 1995 toyota.
jase31r
those dirty dogs ! mad.gif
that is exactly what I feared
wish avgas was cheaper and easier to get !!!!!!
BP used to sell it from the pump! mad.gif
lead emissions from leaded fuel are sweet FA
come out as lead chloride anyway doesnt it
while emmisions from unleaded with out catalytic convertors are cancerous-worse than a bit of lead
the whole thing is political bullshit
Maori_Messiah
QUOTE(jase31 @ Sep 25 2005, 10:37 PM)
the whole thing is political bullshit
*


There's this little thing called money which the government has none...so instead of raising revenue the traditional way they just raise the price on shit we need, speed camera's, harser panisment for possesion of drugs and petrol the three things we NEED speed, drugs and fuel... stupid smart kunt politicians tongue.gif
Maori Messiahr
I deleted this post coz it made me look dumb tongue.gif
Maori Messiahr
QUOTE(jase31 @ Sep 25 2005, 10:37 PM)
the whole thing is political bullshit
*


There's this little thing called money which the government has none...so instead of raising revenue the traditional way they just raise the price on shit we need, speed camera's, harser panisment for possesion of drugs and petrol the three things we NEED speed, drugs and fuel... stupid smart kunt politicians tongue.gif